In response to the presentation and lecture on Auschwitz--the setting for much of Night--please post your thoughts, feelings, and/or questions, by clicking on the "Comment" link below.
Consider what you found interesting, informative, disturbing, confusing about the presentation. If you're not sure what to say, read previous posts.
Keep in mind that this is a class discussion--albeit, an online discussion. Keep your posts brief (about 150 words) so that others will read your comment before posting your own. Respond to at least one other person's comment, unless you are the first to post. Maintain a civil tone, even if you disagree with a classmate's opinion.
Return to the blog at least once to see how the discussion has developed. Feel free to post more than once.
MOST IMPORTANTLY: Do not leave your full name. First names or identifiable nicknames only, please.
POST BY the end of the day Friday, February 18th.
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27 comments:
I had never heard of Auschwitz III before. I knew about I and II, but not III. It was really suprising to find out that brands like Bayer asprin were using the producks from Auschwitz III.
The presentation really was interesting. The atrocities of the Holocaust never cease to horrify and amaze me. Something that really struck me was the planning that went into the Holocaust. This was not just a blind massacre, it was a systematic and planned extermination. Something I found disturbing was the "hiring" of inmates to boss around the other inmates. They had no regard for Jews, and thought of them as barely even humans. To make prisoners beat and occasionally kill other prisoners, who may have been their family or friends is just appalling. Also, I agree with James. I can’t help but think that those companies knew what was going on.
To me, something that struck me about the presentation is that Auschwitz was so shoddily made. The Nazis were supposed to be a huge power, incredibly rigorous, stiff, straight lines of soldiers all exactly alike. But at Auschwitz, it was only a semblance of organization. Clothes were heaped in huge piles, not any sort of organized pattern. The buildings could have been knocked down so easily, being made of nearly rotting wood. It astonishes me how the dirty, dark extermination camps contrast with the strict military discipline of Nazi Germany.
I agree with Harry, the fact that they made Jews kill their own comrades is pretty disturbing to me. But it also brought up a question to me. Is it worth it to hurt all these other people, even kill them, just to save your own life? After all if they Kapos hadnt complied, even though they may have been killed, it would have made things much more difficult for the SS.
Very insightful comments and observations, Sam, Harry, Morgan, and James! I agree with them all. I was not aware of the complex, thorough planning by the Nazi party for these camps. I do not understand why they took such drastic measures for this holocaust. I am aware that the Nazi's had strong prejudices against the Jews; but why spend an enormous amount of time (and money) to slaughter these prisoners: Gas chambers? Tatooing? Selecting a certain percentage of the Jews? Many of these questions can be answered simply because of the hatred for the people of the Jewish faith, yet I remain wondering what other legitimate reason can be applied to this question.
The presentation brought lots of new information to me that I had never even heard about before. Something that I found disturbing, like Harry and Sam W, was that the inmates had to kill other inmates. But on top of that I thought it was just horrible that the "hired" prisoners would blatantly lie to the new prisoners by telling them to get ready for a shower, when really they were getting them ready for their unbeknown deaths in the gas chambers.
Personally I really hated the way they treated the Jewish people because they were just regular people, its just a faith, its nothing so big that they have to kill people because of it. From the presentation, I thought that the people who had formed these camps were pretty twisted in the head because like Mr.Mckinght had said they were designed and all, who would be so tristed as to design a camp where people basically encountered life and death at the same time, that desturbed me. Another thing I felt that was pretty disturbing was the Nazi's tried to destroy everyones individual which was the last thing the Jewish people had to themselves, now thats just evil. Honestly this whole Holocaus thing disturbed and depressed me, especially how they burned people alive now that's not cool!
Sorry I by accenentaly deleated my comment so I'll type it up again. I agree with Harry, Sam W, and John that the Nazi's having the Jewish people kill eachother was pretty disturbing, I think they made them do that was because I think having your friends and comrads kill eachother is more painfull emotionally then having some total stranger just kill you. Also I agree with Julia that the Nazi's spending millions of dollars and all this time into torturing the Jewish people is just messed up. I think these Nazi's were pretty mean and angry people.
Thanks, everyone, for getting this started with your honest opinions. The systematic nature of this genocide--as you've mentioned in your comments, with references to the planning and forethought--is one of those things I find hard to wrap my head around. We can pick that topic up in class.
I did just want to clarify one point. I don't know that there were many cases in which prisoners literally killed other prisoners, or Jews killed other Jews. (It was always SS soldiers who actually dispensed the fatal gas or carried out executions). The kapos might punish their workers, but they generally lacked the authority to execute. The sonderkommandos did play a role in leading prisoners into the chambers and they had the job of handling the bodies. Were they killers for doing so? Again, that's probably a discussion for class.
I did just want to clarify that point.
Although I wasn't there during the presentation in class, I'll still weigh in. The Auschwitz I concentration camp was made into a museum, each room is dedicated to a different topic. As Morgan mentioned with the piles of clothing, they had massive rooms filled with items. One room was filled with luggage bags, one with combs and brushes. The room the horrified me the most was one filled with human hair. In the questions Mr. McKnight gave us on the novel Night, "why the Germans cut off the inmates hair" they sold it to a company that made cloth out of the hair.
I feel like the only reason other inmates agreed to do the Nazi's dirty work is because they were trying to stay alive. They did not have a choice, it was be compliant or be killed.
The brutality of the Nazis, and how they didn't have an ounce of humanity in them does not cease to disgust me.
Learning about the Holocaust has always been very interesting to me. The thing that always gets to me is that they have other prisoners handle the dead bodies or as Mr. M put it, "Doing their dirty work". Those people must be incredibly traumatized. Also having prisoners tell others that they are going to be "showered" is completely foreign to me. I would rather die than have to do that even if i wasn't the person actually turning the cyanide on, i was still a huge role in the process. I would not be able to live knowing that i killed another human being. Something else that i cant understand is how people didn't realize that he was mentally insane. I don't understand how people could follow someone like him, like how did he persuade them? I just don't understand.
Something Morgan mentioned caught my attention; He said that Nazi soldiers were supposed to be stiff and everything, whereas in Auschwitz only organization was demonstrated. I think one part of that is the officers and SS were supposed to be more human-like than the Jews, because the whole point of the extermination and concentration camps was to dehumanize the Jews. While reading Night and listening to Mr. M's powerpoint and lecture, I also realized that that was part of why the Jews weren't just killed when they first arrived at the camp (except for those immediately selected to die). Since the Jews were being "informed" by the Nazis that they were not human, unlike everyone else, and downright didn't belong on Earth, the Nazis wanted to engrave this message into their (the Jews) minds. The Jews who spent a lot of time in the camps before dying or being killed suffered the most. Imagine watching your friends and family die right in front of you, while you looked on but couldn't do anything to stop their deaths. Wouldn't you feel as though you wanted to be the one selected, since there was little left to live for?
My foremost reaction was that I felt the presentation was restricted. Nothing of the death toll was given, nor the more horrifying aspects of the Holocaust. I know there was a good reason for it, but part of me wants to know just what was too awful to be shown to us. Judging by other courses on the Holocaust I had in the past, Auschwitz was a lot more terrible than was described.
I am mindful that it was still a gruesome presentation. Although the Kapos didn't directly kill the prisoners, they still had a hand in the awful deeds. Sometimes I wonder why, and the conclusion is always fear. Fear of pain, fear of punishment, fear of what might happen to you if you didn't agree to serve the SS...
Erica, by saying "Him" do you mean Hitler? If so, I think I have a reason for why he was so admired. Something my eighth grade history teacher told me is when people are in chaos, they want someone to bring them back to happiness. Hitler was that man. He stimulated the German economy, and became something of a hero among Germans. When we have a president that pulls us out of our situation, aren't they going to be a hero to us?
Oh sorry about the mix up Mr. M. But even so, the Jews still did play a role in aiding the Nazis. And I agree with Sam B, fear did definitely drive them to do what they did. But it's still fear of pain upon themselves personally as opposed to inflicting pain upon others. And the Kapos usually ended up being killed and replaced anyways after a short while. I wonder how any Kapos that may have survived the Holocaust felt about the decisions they made.
The thing that strikes me is that the Nazis weren't in any hurry to kill the jews. There was a system for killing them, and it was quite machinelike and well-executed, but the nazis didn't see the jews as just an "inferior race" to be exterminated. They also enjoyed torturing them both mentally and physically, removing them from any semblance of humanity, and benefiting from their slave labor. the nazis didn't just take a large group and kill them; they screened them and often kept them alive for a while to break them before they took them to a "shower" that actually was a gas chamber. So even while they're killing the jews, they still want to surprise and horrify them. Then they make some jews put the bodies in the furnace, and others tell the next group to go to the "showers". All three Auschwitz camps (though not so much #1) were basically there to torment the jews, then finish off those who weren't dead already. For camps created to dehumanize and then kill jews, the nazis sure took their time with it. (and I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive, it wasn't meant that way.)
I also like what James, and Harry said about the companies because it's terrible and inhumane to make a profit from the holocaust, even if you aren't killing the jews yourself.
I thought this lecture was very interesting. Although I had heard many things about the Holocaust and studied it a little bit in geography class a few years ago, this was the first time I had heard an in depth description of what happened in the concentration and extermination camps. For me, it is very hard to understand how the Nazis could have possibly hated these people so much, without any clear reasons or stems for their hatred. It seems that they just selected a certain people, and decided to exterminate them. I also find it horrifying that there were companies using materials and products from the camps, because as Harry said, they most likely knew about the horrible things that were happening at the camps.
Personaly I could not believe how brutal people were treated in the Auschwitz. It's crazy how un human they could make you feel. I can't even grasp how it must of fel to be treated that way. I don't know what would be better living and doing those brutal horrific jobs, or dying so abrupt and painfuly. I also don't understand how so many people live with themselves knowing they were contributing to one of the worst humanitarian crisis's of all time. It is beyond me how it could even cross your mind to do such things to human beings.
I found the Auschwitz presentation fascinating. As I was listening, I felt almost confused, or as if I couldn't completely absorb all the information. It is too horrifying and unrelateable for me to truly comprehend. Despite the horror and sadness, I felt it was very important for us to hear and learn about. Up until this year I have only heard the Holocaust mentioned in conversation, and I didn't really know any of the specific facts and details. I have always wanted to learn more. When my family went to Washington D.C. several years ago we walked past the Holocaust Memorial Museum. We didn't go in because it was booked up and my parents felt my sister and I were too young at the time. After the presentation I appreciate having a better understanding of the events that occured, and would like to visit that museum sometime. It was hard to hear, but very important for everyone in our class to be aware of.
Overall I really enjoyed this presentation, and it gave me a better sense of the torture that was taking place in the book, Night. It was surprising to learn that there were only 6 main extermination camps, and many other concentration camps. Before I though that most of these camps were the same. It was interesting to see that most of the extermination camps were in Poland, and concentration camps mostly around Germany. I found the quote from one of the camps really interesting: "Work makes you free." I could see the holocaust leaders views on work from this quote. After being present in this presentation, I really thought about all of the lives lost in this massive killing and what it would have been like for everyone there to witness. It's so much easier to think about it, and be sad rather than actually witnessing such horror. This topic has really touched me and made me realize how lucky we are to live in a place with such minimal fighting. I agree with Gabe, when he commented about how the Germans were in no hurry to kill all of the jews. The fact that they stretched out the terror and inhumane actions really sticks out as horrible to me.
Thanks again, everyone, for commenting. I wanted to respond to something Sam B. wrote.
I hadn't intended to keep the death toll statistics out of the presentation, but I realized afterwards that I hadn't mentioned them.
More people were killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau than at any other camp. (It has been described as the "largest graveyard in human history"). While exact figures are had to establish, most historians estimate that 1.1 million died at Auschwitz, and that 90% of those were Jews.
Sorry for being late, internet was down all last night. I have to agree with Harry on the organization front. Though still atrocious, the Holocaust may seem easier to handle if it was just wanton killing. The methodical, clinical approach shows that the massacre wasn't just a spontaneous act, it was one well thought out system. Everything was working at maximum efficiency. If they hadn't been using it to kill people, that methodology could be used to better the world.
Commenting on what Nora said, I found it very interesting that the most famous concentration camp was located not in Germany but in Poland (Auschwitz). I would have assumed that it would be in Germany, I wonder why they did the bulk of their dirty work outside of Germany. Was it because they wouldn't necessarily be held accountable if it took place outside their country? or did they just not want any Jews in their "superior" country?
Responding (and agreeing)with what Erica said, I find it completely terrible that others were forced to drag out bodies, and do the dirty work. At some point in Night we are told that one of the men who was selected for his strength had to burn his fathers body. That is completely terrible. How is it possible to continue living, when you know you have done so much harm to others? I mean, after all, the "hired" prisoners were still prisoners, so how could they still do such terrible things to their comrades. Even if they were not carrying out the actual punishments, they were doing the everyday whippings ect. which is a major part of what made life so horrible in concentration camps.
We have previously been taught the details of the Holocaust within the school system but I thought this presentation covered a different perspective. I learned in the past was that the Holocaust's purpose was to kill Jews but almost in a warfare like manner. Auschwitz is actually incredibly organized regarding the low quality of the buildings. Auschwitz from the past makes me think of a prison for completly innocent people. Prison is for peolpe who have committed crimes so it seems that the Nazis took the same environment as prison but had a different goal.
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